应该在Linux下大力推广Java

wsm

不怀疑java的力量
python 这里有python的爱好者么？ 我觉得python是很奇怪的语言
1：没有分段符 一切依靠格式
2：没有开始和结束 到哪儿是那儿
3：负的下标 “keyword”的参数，默认参数以及普通参数混杂
4：支持特殊字符的命名  却不支持特殊字符的import
好像是写出别人看不懂的代码的优良选择啊

BartonZhang

还是JAVA比较清晰。
至少我的感觉是这样。
很容易理解

EdwardRF

java keeps people away from hardwares. This is an advantage for programming, but it is a disadvantage when people want to know what really happens.

if people do not know the basic concept of the machines, they will end up with writting inefficient code.

in addition, java belongs to SUN!!!! remember, it is not under GPL... this is where the deepest problem lies in. if one day, when java goes everywhere, SUN may choose to charge for compilers or even JVM... think about it guys...

EdwardRF

Furthermore, java belongs only one company, the problems is that only that one company sets its standards. if it becomes so powerful that it can alter other public standards like network protocols... just like M$...

However, c/c++ is a standard (though it is set by ANSI thouse americans...at least it is not commerical. ) and there are millions of programmers using it.

EdwardRF

Last but not least, in terms of protability, remember, c/c++ defeats other languages by its portability... because wherever you got a machine, recompile the source code will do.

The only problem is that M$ does not follow POSIX.

wsm

if people do not know the basic concept of the machines, they will end up with writting inefficient code.

这个未必吧

in addition, java belongs to SUN!!!! remember, it is not under GPL...

谁说的？java是一种规范 而不是产品 规范是不属于哪个企业的
也就是说sun拥有的是它的jvm 他的webstart 他的sun one但不是java
根据java的规范 我们可以自己定义语法 作平台的jvm 即使sun怎么怎么样了 java是不会改变的

EdwardRF

i suspect...
you say it is a standard... but it is a standard seted by a commercial company, not any standardised organisation...

lets say, sun gives a new standards of java in a few years maybe called java 3.0, would you follow? and then it decides to charge for every jvm, can you prevent?

remember, c/c++ never has a version, but java do. c# commit the same problem... do not mistaken c# as a new standard of c++ just because they look like.

EdwardRF

wsm seems not believe that bad code is produced when you have insufficient basic knowledge.

Give you a very simple example, do you know allocation of memory for creating new object cost a lot of system resources, but it is what has been tought in most books as a basic concept.  that's why in game programming, people often use a 'object factory' which reuse created objects or produce their own memory management modules.

good coding does not mean easy coding.

wsm

呵呵 我刚开始写代码也是这样 考虑很多当时看来很不错的优化 因为看了一些硬件的说明自命对系统有些了解了
第一次考核完 头头和我谈的时候就说 1：一个工程的效率90%是由方案规划决定了，所以在自己的模块内考虑的再复杂，对整体是没有什么意义的，就算没个模块多让cpu作了那么100个操作，整体引起了1秒的缓慢，那也好过写出一个别人看不懂而容易出错的模块 2：写的不好的代码50%是因为方案不好，50%是因为方案太好。你考虑了很多，优化了很多，结果是代码不清晰，容易隐含bug，作为企业是不需要这样的代码的。
拿这个来看你的例子：是否使用一种具体技术完全是整体设计的任务 如果是一个大的项目 这不会是每个开发人员的角色 （何况这个类工厂的技术是语言相关的而不是硬件相关的 很多java设计师也不知道将来产品会跑在intel还是ppc上 但他会知道创建一个对象是个费时操作）
反过来应该这么说 高级语言正因为隐藏了硬件的细节 使得大家能写出好的代码

wsm

c没有版本？就是ansi c都有好几个版本 是个语言就有版本 python快要出3.0了 没有新的版本表示这个语言要么已经经过多个版本成熟了要么就是死了
拿这个来批评java 不能成为理由
再来看sun对java1到java2或者说更小的版本变化 实质上改变了那些东西？
jvm的标准格式改了么？java的代码语法改了么？java的编译解释方式改了么？
最重要的改动都在j2ee和j2me的出现 这是一种“可扩展”语言的特性 他的包容面大了 使用性更好了 而java还是java
sun根本没有对“每个”平台的所有权 他何来charge window的jvm?何来charge mac的jvm? 如果说只是jvm这个“程序”当然有可能 （虽然就从商业法律角度来说已经很难了）这就好比ms的编译器收费 gcc免费一样 和c语言本身有什么关系？爱谁是谁呗

weidl

看了这么多，我只想知道这里有没有真正静下心来学过java的人？
如果学过，上面的很多话就不会说出口了

wsm

不知道什么又使得高人感叹世人之平庸无知了？
何谓“真正静下心来学”？
我是在工作中用到了，所以开始了解java用java的。实际上我只是看了2礼拜的书，然后一个月后出第一版的程序。看到什么知识点了，那就是我要用到它了。然后某个周末胡乱考了个证书。
不知道这种方式算“静下心”否？
当然还有另一种学的方式：在学校里我们很“静下心”的学微积分学量子力学也学体育理论课，然后考了个不错的分数。
这种方式算“静下心”否？

EdwardRF

is there a version for c?  i've never heard about that.
the best thing about java is you do not have to recompile the source code on different platform (though limited).

on my compaq presario 1200, even the jvm form sum could never get my display correct. that's why i do not like java.

Don't you think java is much slower than native binaries?
on my AMD1GHz/512/Gforce2mx400/60G, it takes about 30sec to get the IDE from SUN to start up.
if you are working on database or simple tasks, it is reasonable to choose java. but when we due with some speed critical tasks such as game programming, i would rather choose c/c++.